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"The Cost of War": Behind the Scenes
A Conversation With Producer Spencer Scott
"I believe that in a time of war the American press has a duty to show the American people what the war is costing in American lives and suffering. This allows the American people to honestly answer the question: is it worth it?"
1) To begin, could you briefly introduce yourself and talk a little about how you got involved with radio?
My name is Spencer Scott. I’m currently a sophomore at NYU studying Journalism and Middle Eastern & Islamic Studies with a minor in French. I got involved in radio toward the beginning of my sophomore year in high school. It was more or less on a whim. A friend of mine who worked with Blunt Youth Radio Project [at WMPG in Portland, Maine] said that since he and his fellow seniors at Blunt were graduating the program was looking for “fresh meat.” He was a good friend of mine so I figured anything he did was probably pretty cool. I called up Blunt, and I was learning how to use a minidisk recorder and edit ProTools within weeks.
2) You’ve produced stories about a wounded Iraq War veteran, a life-long military man who’s about to see combat for the first time, and an Iraq War widow. How do you find your subjects? What kinds of stories are you drawn to?
Cpl. Chris Kotch I found by calling a local Vet Center and asking that my number be given out along with the request that any young veterans who would be willing to speak with me call. I was introduced to Lavinia Gelineau by my mother, who had cared for her in the Emergency Room where my mother is a physician. These stories came to me in very different ways, but they all were stories of the war in Iraq’s affect on Mainers both young and old. I thought the war’s affect at home was a topic I could feasibly cover as a young journalist, and more importantly cover from a unique perspective.
3) I think it’s taken for granted that war is fought by the young, waged by the old, and reported by the old. As a young radio producer, how do you approach the task of war reporting?
I don’t think my unique perspective as a young person covering the war comes from the way I, personally, approach war reporting. I believe it’s a little more inherent, more subconscious. It’s not really that I approach war reporting in a certain way, it’s that the way those I report on interact with me produce a unique perspective. When I interviewed Cpl. Kotch, a twenty-one year-old that had nearly lost his life in Iraq, I was just seventeen. We related in a way that I don’t think he would have with an older journalist. I think it was more earnest.
My name is Spencer Scott. I’m currently a sophomore at NYU studying Journalism and Middle Eastern & Islamic Studies with a minor in French. I got involved in radio toward the beginning of my sophomore year in high school. It was more or less on a whim. A friend of mine who worked with Blunt Youth Radio Project [at WMPG in Portland, Maine] said that since he and his fellow seniors at Blunt were graduating the program was looking for “fresh meat.” He was a good friend of mine so I figured anything he did was probably pretty cool. I called up Blunt, and I was learning how to use a minidisk recorder and edit ProTools within weeks.
2) You’ve produced stories about a wounded Iraq War veteran, a life-long military man who’s about to see combat for the first time, and an Iraq War widow. How do you find your subjects? What kinds of stories are you drawn to?
Cpl. Chris Kotch I found by calling a local Vet Center and asking that my number be given out along with the request that any young veterans who would be willing to speak with me call. I was introduced to Lavinia Gelineau by my mother, who had cared for her in the Emergency Room where my mother is a physician. These stories came to me in very different ways, but they all were stories of the war in Iraq’s affect on Mainers both young and old. I thought the war’s affect at home was a topic I could feasibly cover as a young journalist, and more importantly cover from a unique perspective.
3) I think it’s taken for granted that war is fought by the young, waged by the old, and reported by the old. As a young radio producer, how do you approach the task of war reporting?
I don’t think my unique perspective as a young person covering the war comes from the way I, personally, approach war reporting. I believe it’s a little more inherent, more subconscious. It’s not really that I approach war reporting in a certain way, it’s that the way those I report on interact with me produce a unique perspective. When I interviewed Cpl. Kotch, a twenty-one year-old that had nearly lost his life in Iraq, I was just seventeen. We related in a way that I don’t think he would have with an older journalist. I think it was more earnest.
4) I get the impression that there is an ongoing debate among youth radio circles about what youth radio should sound like (ie should it sound like “adult” radio or should it be its own thing entirely?). As a younger producer myself, I wonder if the culture of radio production encourages emulation and what effect that might have on creativity and innovation. In your radio work, do you aim for “the NPR sound”? Should youth radio be wary of its elders?
This I have trouble with. I was raised listening to NPR. I think its good programming. If it’s good, why not emulate it? I’m still figuring this one out, but what I can say at this point is that I think adult producers have a wealth of valuable lessons to pass on to us, however I don’t think their work should be used as a template for our own. The “NPR sound” is the sound of good, engaging reporting. I don’t think we should toss it in the poubelle [note: French for “trash can”] because it’s what old people do. But I also think we need to remember that good engaging reporting can sound different, and to not be afraid of that either.
This I have trouble with. I was raised listening to NPR. I think its good programming. If it’s good, why not emulate it? I’m still figuring this one out, but what I can say at this point is that I think adult producers have a wealth of valuable lessons to pass on to us, however I don’t think their work should be used as a template for our own. The “NPR sound” is the sound of good, engaging reporting. I don’t think we should toss it in the poubelle [note: French for “trash can”] because it’s what old people do. But I also think we need to remember that good engaging reporting can sound different, and to not be afraid of that either.
5) On PRX, “The Cost of War” has incited much critical response. Of the nine reviews, three are from various PRX editorial board members arguing among themselves. It’s a beautiful thing. Why do you think “The Cost of War” has stirred up so much controversy?
To put it simply, it’s a good story. It’s an incredible story. I’m not saying that’s got anything to do with me except for the fact that this incredible story fell into my lap when I was seventeen. I reported it the way I thought I should. I’d also like to add that I’m not done yet. The story deserves more, and I’d like to do it justice.
6) In response to “The Cost of War,” PRX editorial board member Steve Yasko wrote, “By the end of this piece the writing falls down to youthful complaining and angst about the injustice of the war…Ultimately, I find myself wondering if I want this kind of story from a younger professional? If this story came up in my newsroom I would have certainly assigned it to my most senior reporter. I have listened to several youth producer pieces and I find the pieces I find most compelling is when a young professional tells me how his compatriots are thinking and dealing with life.” I think this comment contains the underlying assumption that youth producers should stick to youth issues (war not being one of them). Should youth producers stick to “youth issues”? Why did you tell this story as opposed to leaving it for a seasoned reporter?
I actually e-mailed Steve Yasko shortly after reading his review of the piece. I was, in a word, miffed. His review addresses an issue that’s certainly worth debating. If I was in a newsroom and I came across this story I probably wouldn’t give it to the seventeen year-old either. But, then again, there aren’t many seventeen year-olds in the newsrooms of the American press… So I found Mr. Yasko’s review a little irrelevant, and maybe even a little offensive to youth producers. What his review says to me is, what a great story, a shame this young person is the one telling it. When my mother first told me Lavinia was interested in speaking with me, I wasn’t about to call up the local NPR affiliate to ask a seasoned reporter to stand in for me.
What is the role of young producers? It’s to report, to learn, to experiment. I take great issue categorizing youth producers and asking them to limit themselves to stories pertinent to youth. What happens when they grow up? Youth producers aren’t youth producers forever. We bring a young perspective to everything we report on, whether it’s about us or anything else. I would hope that many of my fellow young producers go into journalism and use the experience they’ve been gaining from such an early age. Not limiting ourselves now can only make us better journalists later.
7) The first half of “The Cost of War” could be called objective because it lacks an argument and relies little on a first-person narrator. However, there is a shift in the second half in that the narrator enters the piece as an opinionated character. For example, you describe your mom waking you up in the morning, you argue that the deaths of Chris and Lavinia Gelineau “amount only to the cost of war that have impacted so many,” and so forth. Can you explain your thinking when it came to developing yourself as a character in “The Cost of War”? In retrospect, would you have gone about this differently?
The Cost of War is a second version of an original piece that was more simply a story about Lavinia Gelineau. After she was murdered, I knew I had to revisit the story. I used the second version to try to include things I hadn’t in the first version, most importantly include what had happened in the aftermath of the first piece, and finally discuss how the story had impacted me. I felt that at that time, with what I had, it was the best way to go about revisiting her story.
8) The transition between the first half of the piece and the second half is rather abrupt. One moment there’s an interview clip of Lavinia alive and well, and the next moment your mother tells you that Lavinia’s father murdered her. Can you explain this production choice?
I think I can answer this fairly simply. One moment Lavinia Gelineau was alive, and the next she was not. Death, especially that of a young person, always comes with a jarring abruptness. It’s the abruptness of a life ending when it wasn’t supposed to. At one moment Chris Gelineau was alive and well to Lavinia, but as soon as an army chaplain regretfully informed her he was not, it was abruptly no longer so. I felt there was no way, no need, even, to ease my listeners into the fact that Lavinia had been murdered.
9) Regarding story structure, Ira Glass argues, “You can’t have anecdote without reflection. It’s got to mean something.” “The Cost of War” has both. For example, you say, “In a way, Lavinia’s death released her from solitude.” This reflective line is paired with a heartbreaking scene in which Lavinia visits her husband’s grave and you both listen to the chime she had hung in a nearby tree. When you're working on a radio story, how do you strike a balance between concrete/scene writing on the one hand and abstract/reflective writing on the other?
I think it depends on the piece. I felt that when I revisited Lavinia’s story it required more. There is always the concern of bias in journalism, of “sensationalization” if I might be allowed to make up a word. But we are all human beings. I tried to bring that aspect to “The Cost of War.” I wanted to say what I thought, not as a proponent or opponent to the war, but as a young person faced with a tragic story about what the costs of war to Chris, to Lavinia and to their families. This is getting a little tangential, but I believe that in a time of war the American press has a duty to show the American people what the war is costing in American lives and suffering. This allows the American people to honestly answer the question: is it worth it?
10) Now that you’re in college, are you involved in radio? How has your involvement in Blunt affected your life post-high school? Do you think you’ll go into radio or journalism as a career? Am I asking you enough questions about your future to make you nervous yet?
I haven’t done any producing since I’ve arrived here. New York City is kind of a crazy place to try integrate yourself into, so I’ve been taking it slow. I experimented with a lot of different fields of study at NYU but I’ve decided that journalism is indeed my calling, so I’ve declared it as my major. As far as Blunt’s affect on post-Blunt years… it’s immense. I didn’t play sports in high school. I did a lot of theatre and mock trial for a couple years, but my main focus was Blunt. I put a lot of time into it, and it definitely paid off. At eighteen years old I had produced a piece ["Profile of Cpl. Chris Kotch"] that became part of a series that was given an Edward R. Murrow award [Youth Radio's "Reflections on Return"]. How many other kids get that opportunity? I owe so much to Blunt.
To put it simply, it’s a good story. It’s an incredible story. I’m not saying that’s got anything to do with me except for the fact that this incredible story fell into my lap when I was seventeen. I reported it the way I thought I should. I’d also like to add that I’m not done yet. The story deserves more, and I’d like to do it justice.
6) In response to “The Cost of War,” PRX editorial board member Steve Yasko wrote, “By the end of this piece the writing falls down to youthful complaining and angst about the injustice of the war…Ultimately, I find myself wondering if I want this kind of story from a younger professional? If this story came up in my newsroom I would have certainly assigned it to my most senior reporter. I have listened to several youth producer pieces and I find the pieces I find most compelling is when a young professional tells me how his compatriots are thinking and dealing with life.” I think this comment contains the underlying assumption that youth producers should stick to youth issues (war not being one of them). Should youth producers stick to “youth issues”? Why did you tell this story as opposed to leaving it for a seasoned reporter?
I actually e-mailed Steve Yasko shortly after reading his review of the piece. I was, in a word, miffed. His review addresses an issue that’s certainly worth debating. If I was in a newsroom and I came across this story I probably wouldn’t give it to the seventeen year-old either. But, then again, there aren’t many seventeen year-olds in the newsrooms of the American press… So I found Mr. Yasko’s review a little irrelevant, and maybe even a little offensive to youth producers. What his review says to me is, what a great story, a shame this young person is the one telling it. When my mother first told me Lavinia was interested in speaking with me, I wasn’t about to call up the local NPR affiliate to ask a seasoned reporter to stand in for me.
What is the role of young producers? It’s to report, to learn, to experiment. I take great issue categorizing youth producers and asking them to limit themselves to stories pertinent to youth. What happens when they grow up? Youth producers aren’t youth producers forever. We bring a young perspective to everything we report on, whether it’s about us or anything else. I would hope that many of my fellow young producers go into journalism and use the experience they’ve been gaining from such an early age. Not limiting ourselves now can only make us better journalists later.
7) The first half of “The Cost of War” could be called objective because it lacks an argument and relies little on a first-person narrator. However, there is a shift in the second half in that the narrator enters the piece as an opinionated character. For example, you describe your mom waking you up in the morning, you argue that the deaths of Chris and Lavinia Gelineau “amount only to the cost of war that have impacted so many,” and so forth. Can you explain your thinking when it came to developing yourself as a character in “The Cost of War”? In retrospect, would you have gone about this differently?
The Cost of War is a second version of an original piece that was more simply a story about Lavinia Gelineau. After she was murdered, I knew I had to revisit the story. I used the second version to try to include things I hadn’t in the first version, most importantly include what had happened in the aftermath of the first piece, and finally discuss how the story had impacted me. I felt that at that time, with what I had, it was the best way to go about revisiting her story.
8) The transition between the first half of the piece and the second half is rather abrupt. One moment there’s an interview clip of Lavinia alive and well, and the next moment your mother tells you that Lavinia’s father murdered her. Can you explain this production choice?
I think I can answer this fairly simply. One moment Lavinia Gelineau was alive, and the next she was not. Death, especially that of a young person, always comes with a jarring abruptness. It’s the abruptness of a life ending when it wasn’t supposed to. At one moment Chris Gelineau was alive and well to Lavinia, but as soon as an army chaplain regretfully informed her he was not, it was abruptly no longer so. I felt there was no way, no need, even, to ease my listeners into the fact that Lavinia had been murdered.
9) Regarding story structure, Ira Glass argues, “You can’t have anecdote without reflection. It’s got to mean something.” “The Cost of War” has both. For example, you say, “In a way, Lavinia’s death released her from solitude.” This reflective line is paired with a heartbreaking scene in which Lavinia visits her husband’s grave and you both listen to the chime she had hung in a nearby tree. When you're working on a radio story, how do you strike a balance between concrete/scene writing on the one hand and abstract/reflective writing on the other?
I think it depends on the piece. I felt that when I revisited Lavinia’s story it required more. There is always the concern of bias in journalism, of “sensationalization” if I might be allowed to make up a word. But we are all human beings. I tried to bring that aspect to “The Cost of War.” I wanted to say what I thought, not as a proponent or opponent to the war, but as a young person faced with a tragic story about what the costs of war to Chris, to Lavinia and to their families. This is getting a little tangential, but I believe that in a time of war the American press has a duty to show the American people what the war is costing in American lives and suffering. This allows the American people to honestly answer the question: is it worth it?
10) Now that you’re in college, are you involved in radio? How has your involvement in Blunt affected your life post-high school? Do you think you’ll go into radio or journalism as a career? Am I asking you enough questions about your future to make you nervous yet?
I haven’t done any producing since I’ve arrived here. New York City is kind of a crazy place to try integrate yourself into, so I’ve been taking it slow. I experimented with a lot of different fields of study at NYU but I’ve decided that journalism is indeed my calling, so I’ve declared it as my major. As far as Blunt’s affect on post-Blunt years… it’s immense. I didn’t play sports in high school. I did a lot of theatre and mock trial for a couple years, but my main focus was Blunt. I put a lot of time into it, and it definitely paid off. At eighteen years old I had produced a piece ["Profile of Cpl. Chris Kotch"] that became part of a series that was given an Edward R. Murrow award [Youth Radio's "Reflections on Return"]. How many other kids get that opportunity? I owe so much to Blunt.
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